A ranar 20 ga Oktoba, 2020, tare da manyan sassan kasar har yanzu a kulle a matsayin matakan dakile cutar, Tiziana Dearing na WBUR Radio Boston ta gudanar da hirarraki daban-daban tare da masanin cututtukan dabbobi Martin Kulldorff na Jami'ar Harvard da Rochelle Walensky, sannan a Babban Asibitin Massachusetts kuma daga baya Hukumar Biden ta nada shi a matsayin Daraktan Cibiyoyin Kula da Cututtuka.
Tashar ta ba wa Walensky damar mayar da martani ga Kulldorff amma bai bar Kulldorff ya mayar da martani ba. Sautin a fili ya kasance maƙiya ga Babban Sanarwar Barrington wanda ya tura shirin kariya mai da hankali kan kullewa.
A cikin hirar da ta yi da ita, Walensky ya yaba da "madaidaicin kulle-kulle" na kasar Sin, ya kuma yi Allah wadai da manufofin Sweden na bude makarantu da kasuwanci. Ta ba da misali da kyakkyawan sakamako na China (mutuwar mutane 3 a kowace miliyan), kodayake bayanan daga China ana zarginsu sosai, sannan kuma ta ba da misali da yawan mutuwar Sweden, duk da cewa gundumomi 74 a duniya da suka kulle suna da adadin mutuwar Covid-XNUMX ga kowane mutum. Ta kara nuna shakku kan ra'ayin cewa rigakafi na halitta tare da Covid zai kasance mai dorewa ko kuma mai ƙarfi, kodayake bayanai sun nuna cewa ta kasance. gaba daya kuskure akan wannan batu kuma.
A ƙarshe, ta yanke shawara ba tare da wata shaida ba cewa matsalar rashin lafiyar kwakwalwa ba ta kasance saboda kulle-kulle ba amma a maimakon haka "na iya danganta da gaskiyar cewa ƴan uwansu sun shuɗe."
An rubuta duka hirar a ƙasa.
WBUR: Za mu yi magana yanzu game da cece-kuce game da yadda ake yaƙar cutar ta coronavirus. Hakan ya fito ne bayan da wasu gungun masana kimiyya suka yi gardama cewa yakamata Amurka ta bi garkuwar garken garken. Wato, bari yawancin mutane su koma yadda suke, su yi ƙoƙarin kare mafi rauni kuma su hau wannan har sai isassun mutane sun kamu da kwayar cutar kuma suna da kariya daga kamuwa da ita ta dabi'a. Wadancan masana kimiyya sun sanya hannu kan Babban Sanarwar Barrington a wani taron tunani a Great Barrington, Massachusetts.
Wasu mambobin gwamnatin Trump sun amince da hakan. Yanzu koma baya daga sauran sassan masana kimiyya ya kasance cikin sauri da tsauri. Masu suka suna jayayya cewa tsarin garkuwar garken garken ya fita waje da ilimin kimiyya kuma zai yi sanadiyar mutuwar mutane da yawa. Yanzu, tunatarwa mai sauri kan lambobin, Amurkawa 220,000 sun mutu sakamakon barkewar cutar tare da fiye da mutane miliyan takwas a cikin kasar.
Yarjejeniyar kimiyya ita ce, kwayar cutar ta iska ce kuma a halin yanzu babu wani rigakafin da aka amince da shi. Cibiyoyin Kula da Cututtuka da Cututtuka suna ba coronavirus adadin masu kamuwa da cuta na 0.65%, sau da yawa sama da na mura na yanayi.
Muna da muryoyin gida biyu a gare ku yanzu. Ɗaya shine mawallafin Babban Bayanin Barrington, kuma ɗayan mawallafin marubucin John Snow Memorandum yana la'antarsa. Muna maraba da farko Martin Kulldorff, farfesa a fannin likitanci a Makarantar Kiwon Lafiya ta Harvard da Brigham da Asibitin Mata. Yana ɗaya daga cikin mawallafa uku na Farfesa Farfesa Martin Kulldorff na Babban Barrington Declaration. Barka da zuwa rediyon Boston.
Dr, Martin Kulldorff: Na gode.
WBUR: Don haka sanarwar ku ta sha suka sosai. Zan iya cewa a wasu da'irori an zagi shi. A cikin rubuce-rubucen shi, kun yi hasashen ƙarfin martanin da za a yi game da hujjarku? Kuma idan kun yi tsammanin hakan, menene ya sa kuka yanke shawarar rubuta shi?
Dokta Martin Kulldorff: Ina tsammanin wani dauki. Ee. Kuma yadda muka magance cutar ta zuwa yanzu tare da kulle-kulle shine hari mafi muni da aka yiwa ma'aikata a cikin rabin karni, tun daga rarrabuwa da kuma tun yakin Vietnam. Abin da muke yi a halin yanzu shine, muna ba da kariya ga ɗaliban koleji masu ƙarancin haɗari da ƙwararru kamar lauyoyi, ma'aikatan banki, 'yan jarida, da masana kimiyya waɗanda ke cikin haɗari sosai.
Kuma a maimakon haka ma'aikata suna haɓaka rigakafin yawan jama'a wanda zai kare mu duka. Kuma wannan ya haɗa da babban haɗari, tsofaffin ma'aikata waɗanda ke da shekaru sittin, waɗanda watakila suna tukin taksi, waɗanda ke aiki a ma'aikacin gida, aiki babban kanti, da dai sauransu, kuma waɗanda ba su da wani zaɓi, sai dai su yi aiki. Don haka muna kara yawan mace-mace tare da dabarar yanzu. Don haka abin da ke faruwa shine, tare da COVID-19, kowa na iya kamuwa da kowa, amma akwai bambanci fiye da ninki dubu a mace-mace tsakanin babba da ƙarami. Don haka a tsakanin tsofaffi, COVID-19 ya fi mura ta shekara; zai fi muni. Don haka ya fi hatsari a gare su. A daya bangaren kuma, ga yara, akasin haka. Ga yara, COVID-19 ba shi da haɗari sosai fiye da mura na shekara. So-
WBUR: To, zan tsayar da ku a can domin akwai abubuwa da yawa a cikin abin da kuka faɗa. Kuma akwai 'yan abubuwan da nake so in kwashe kafin mu ci gaba zuwa ƙarin bayani. Kashin farko na abin da ka fada ya yi kama da maganar akida. Ka sani, hari mafi muni a kan ma'aikata, tun daga Babban Mawuyacin hali. Ina so in mayar da hankali kan tattaunawar kimiyya a nan a cikin wadannan 'yan mintoci masu zuwa. Don haka ina so in fara da wannan inda kuka yi maganar muna haɓaka rigakafi a tsakanin ma'aikata.
Kariya a zahiri, yana cikin jayayya dangane da bayanan da ke tattare da coronavirus. Ina nufin, ba mu da tabbas, muna ganin shaidar cewa akwai maimaita lokuta. Ba mu da tabbacin tsawon lokacin da wannan rigakafin zai kasance. Ba za mu iya tambayar ka'idar ku ba, cewa rigakafin yana yiwuwa ta hanyar da ake buƙata don rigakafin garken garken don kare yawan jama'a.
Dokta Martin Kulldorff: Don haka, da farko, idan ba mu da rigakafi daga kamuwa da cuta ta dabi'a, to, begen yin rigakafin ya ragu sosai, amma akwai mutane da yawa da suka kamu da COVID-19 ya zuwa yanzu tun farkon wannan shekara. Kuma mun ga kadan ne kawai na sake kamuwa da cuta. Don haka idan babu rigakafi ga COVID-19, da mun ga da yawa, da yawa daga cikin waɗancan cututtukan. Don haka a bayyane yake cewa akwai rigakafi ga COVID 19. Kuma-
WBUR: Amma shin da gaske ne binary? Ina matukar son fahimtar wannan. Shin wannan ra'ayi ne na binary? Akwai rigakafi ko babu rigakafi. Ko kuwa wannan batu ne na gradation? Yaya garkuwar ku kuma har tsawon wane lokaci wannan rigakafin ke riƙe?
Dokta Martin Kulldorff: To, ba mu san tsawon lokacin da zai tsaya ba saboda dalilai na fili domin bai wuce shekara guda ba. Don haka ga wasu cututtuka muna samun rigakafi na tsawon rai, ga wasu kuma ba mu. Yana ƙarshe [inaudible 00:05:18]. Hasashena shine ba mu samun rigakafi na tsawon rai daga COVID, amma ban sani ba tabbas. Kuma babu wanda ya san tabbas.
WBUR: Lafiya. Sa'an nan kuma sauran abin da kuka faɗa a cikin waɗannan jawabai na buɗewa shine cewa akwai adadin mace-mace sau dubu fiye da na sauran sassan jama'a. Kamar dai hujjar da ke cikin Babban Bayanin Barrington ta dogara ne akan ra'ayi cewa ma'aunin da ya dace shine mace-mace. Amma ina so in yi tambaya, mun ga bayanan da ke nuna, alal misali, cewa mutanen da ke da lafiya kuma watakila suna da haske ko kuma ba su da alamun lalacewa ga zuciyarsu, lalata huhu. Kuma kamar yadda kuka ce, mun kamu da wannan kwayar cutar ko kuma mun san ta kasa da shekara guda. Ta yaya za mu san cewa babu wasu munanan illolin da ke tattare da kamuwa da kwayar cutar, ina nufin bangaren cutar, ko da kuwa mace-mace ba lamari ba ne.
Dokta Martin Kulldorff: Don haka dangane da tasirin dogon lokaci, bari mu ce rabin shekara, akwai lokuta na COVID-19 tare da haifar da hakan. Haka ne, kamar akwai mura na shekara-shekara da sauran cututtuka masu yawa. Ban ga wani binciken da ya nuna cewa ya fi bayan COVID-19 fiye da bayan mura na shekara-shekara. Idan ya zo ga tasirin dogon lokaci fiye da shekara guda, a fili ba mu san komai game da hakan ba.
Abin da muka sani shi ne, kulle-kullen da muke aiwatarwa tare da rufe makarantu, da dai sauransu, ya haifar da mummunar barna. Ilimi yana da matukar muhimmanci ga yaran makaranta, amma ba wai wannan kadai ba, muna da makaranta… A ilimin mutum yana da mahimmanci ga lafiyar jiki da lafiyar kwakwalwa. Barkewar cututtukan zuciya ya fi muni saboda wannan. Don haka mutane suna mutuwa daga wannan. Yawan rigakafin yara ya ragu, cutar daji ta ragu, amma wannan ba don mutane ba sa kamuwa da cutar kansa saboda ba a gano su ba.
Ba iri ɗaya bane gwajin cutar kansa. Don haka wanda zai iya rayuwa na tsawon shekaru 15, 20, yanzu zai iya mutuwa da kansar mahaifa, watakila shekaru uku ko hudu daga yanzu, saboda ba mu yin allo. Kuma tabbas lafiyar hankali bala'i ne. Kuma idan ka yi magana da likitan kwakwalwa, alal misali, za su tabbatar da cewa nauyin da ke kan mutane ya karu. Kuma akwai wani bincike da aka yi a watan Yuni wanda ya ce a tsakanin matasa a farkon shekarun su ashirin, 25% na tunanin kashe kansa. Don haka yawan kashe kansu-
WBUR: To, haka ne-
Dokta Martin Kulldorff: Wannan ya fi na al'ada.
WBUR: Don haka kuna yin shi-
Dr. Martin Kulldorff: Don haka akwai lahani.
WBUR: Ee. Don haka kuna yin muhawara a can. Mu tsaya a wurin na minti daya. A cikin sukar hujjarku. Don haka alal misali, Dr. Anthony Fauci ya ce, ra'ayin na iya haifar da, "yawan adadin wadanda suka mutu." Kuma an yi kiyasi da yawa a cikin sukar Babban Sanarwar Barrington. A babban ƙarshen, miliyan ɗaya, ƙila miliyan biyar ƙididdiga masu ra'ayin mazan jiya a cikin kewayon 500,000. Don haka kuna jayayya cewa matakin mutuwa, idan muka bar wannan abu ya shiga cikin ƙananan jama'a, shin cinikin da ya dace da sauran nau'ikan asarar da muke fuskanta shine kuka tsara? Wannan hujja ce?
Dokta Martin Kulldorff: A'a, ba hujjar ba ce. Hujja ita ce shirin kariyar mayar da hankali da muke gabatarwa a cikin Babban Sanarwar Barrington ita ce hanyar rage mace-mace daga COVID-19. Kuma akwai ainihin dabaru guda uku waɗanda za mu iya bi tare da COVID.
Daya shine kada ayi komai, kusan komai. Idan muka yi haka, wasu tsofaffi za su kamu da cutar, wasu kuma matasa za su kamu da cutar. A cikin matasa, za a sami mace-mace kaɗan, a cikin tsofaffi za a sami mace-mace mai yawa kuma za mu sami mace-mace da yawa. Don haka wannan ba dabara ce mai kyau ba. Don haka sosai, mummunan dabara. Wani zaɓi shine yin wani babban kulle-kulle a cikin kowane zamani. Don haka kowa da kowa yana da kariya daidai. Idan muka yi haka, muna ciyar da cutar gaba cikin lokaci. Don haka muna rage mace-mace na ɗan lokaci, amma har yanzu za ta riske mu.
Kuma idan muka kare kowa daidai da kowa, to wasu tsofaffi za su kamu da cutar, wasu kuma matasa sun kamu da cutar. Kuma kuma, tun da yawancin tsofaffi sun kamu da cutar, za mu iya samun yawan mace-mace. Don haka wannan ma ba dabara ce mai kyau ba. Kuma wannan shine dabarun da muka bi yanzu sama da rabin shekara. Abin da muke ba da shawara tare da kariyar mayar da hankali shine tsofaffi da sauran rukunin masu haɗari dole ne su kasance da yawa, mafi kyawun kariya don mu sami mutane kaɗan da waɗanda suka kamu da cutar. Matasan na iya gudanar da rayuwarsu ta yau da kullun saboda suna da ƙarancin haɗari. Don haka ita ce hanyar da za a rage yawan mace-mace a cikin al'umma.
WBUR: Don haka yi tunanin babban rugujewar rayuwar da ke mayar da hankali kan kariyar idan za mu iya yin hakan, wannan kariyar mai da hankali zai buƙaci ta yadda mutanen da ke da rauni, wani adadi mai yawa na yawan jama'ar Amurka suna cikin haɗari ko babban haɗari idan ya zo ga abubuwan da ke faruwa ko rikitarwa daga coronavirus. Kun yi magana a farkon, kuma na san kun yi magana game da mutanen da ke da rauni waɗanda wannan kwayar cutar ta shafa ba daidai ba, amma kuma ba za su iya yin irin wannan warewa ba ko kuma ba za su iya yin hakan ba. Shin kun ga wannan a zahiri yana aiki ta kowace hanya… Bai yi aiki ba a Sweden misali, inda aka yi ƙoƙarin yin hakan. Ina nufin, a cikin gidajen jinya, abin ya yi muni.
Dokta Martin Kulldorff: Don haka a Sweden, matsalar gidan kula da tsofaffi ta kasance a Stockholm, wanda ke da adadin mace-mace fiye da sauran Sweden, duk da wannan dabarar. Don haka a Stockholm, gidan jinya ya kasance bala'i. Ba daidai ba ne kamar yadda yake a Massachusetts a New York ko New Jersey, amma ya yi muni. Don haka ba su kare lafiyar mutanen da ke cikin gidajen kula da tsofaffi a Stockholm da sauran Sweden ba, sun yi kyau, amma ba a Stockholm ba.
WBUR: Don haka ga na ƙarshe, uzuri, kawai daƙiƙa guda, uzuri, ga tambayata ta ƙarshe. Ina so in canza kaya. Kai da abokan aikin ku kun gabatar da wannan shawara ta Cibiyar Nazarin Tattalin Arziki ta Amirka da ke Great Barrington, Massachusetts. Charles Koch ne ya tallafa wa wannan. An yi zargin cewa an yi siyasa saboda wannan kudade na siyasa kuma mutanen da ke kirkiro wannan tsari na tsarin binary, a siyasance na masu kulle-kulle tare da taron kare garken garken. Idan za ku iya komawa ku sake yin hakan, za ku sake wannan a karkashin inuwar da ba ta siyasa ba?
Dokta Martin Kulldorff: Don haka daga cikin mu ukun da muka sanya hannu, wanda ya rubuta wannan sanarwar, ni kaina, babbar cuta ta duniya, Sunetra Gupta, jami'ar Oxford, da kuma Dr. Jay Bhattacharya a jami'ar Stanford. Babu ɗayanmu da ke karɓar kuɗi daga kowane kamfanonin harhada magunguna, duk wasu manyan kamfanoni, tabbas ba daga ’yan’uwan Koch ba. Babu wani daga cikinmu da ya sami wani tallafi, wani alawus ko albashi daga Cibiyar da aka sanya wa hannu, ba daga wurin wani ba.
Dukanmu muna saka kuɗin kanmu, don kashe kuɗin kanmu, don samun damar yin wannan aikin. Cibiyar ba ta ga wannan sanarwar ba kafin a kammala ta kuma ta sanya hannu. Kuma ra'ayin game da 'yan'uwan Koch, wannan shirme ne a zahiri. 'Yan'uwan Koch sun ba da tallafi ga Neil Ferguson na Kwalejin Imperial mutum ne mai matukar goyon bayan kulle-kulle wanda ya kasance daya daga cikin wadanda suka fara ba da shawarar kulle-kulle. Don haka a zarge mu da samun kudade daga Koch a gare mu, cin zarafi ne kawai.
WBUR: To, a’a, ina nufin, ko dai sun tallafa wa Cibiyar ko kuma ba su yi ba. Ina nufin, ina ganin wannan lamari ne kawai, ina jin tsoron mu tsaya a nan. Wannan shine Martin Kulldorff, farfesa a fannin likitanci a Makarantar Kiwon Lafiya ta Harvard da Brigham da Asibitin Mata. Ɗaya daga cikin mawallafa na Babban Sanarwar Barrington. Farfesa Kulldorff ya gode da kasancewa tare da mu.
Dokta Martin Kulldorff: Na gode.
WBUR: Sauraron wannan tattaunawa da Dr. Rochelle Walensky, ita ma farfesa ce a fannin likitanci a Makarantar Kiwon Lafiya ta Harvard, likitar cutar da ke aiki a Babban Asibitin Massachusetts da Brigham da Mata da kuma shugabar sashin cututtukan cututtuka a babban taro. Ita ma marubuciya ce ta John Snow Memorandum, wanda ya yi Allah wadai da wannan tsarin rigakafin garken kuma an buga shi da farko a cikin lancet. Dr. Walensky, barka da dawowa Radio Boston.
Dokta Rochelle Walensky: Barka da yamma, na gode da samun ni.
WBUR: Ee, na san kuna saurare yanzu. Don haka tambayata ta farko a gare ku ita ce, ko akwai wani abu na musamman da ya fito muku a tattaunawar Martin Kulldorff da ni a yanzu?
Dokta Rochelle Walensky: Iya. Ka sani, abin da nake so in ce shi ne, ya yi daidai da cewa shi da abokan aikinsa kwararru ne masu mutunta cututtukan cututtuka da kuma kwararru. Don haka ina so kawai in ba shi adadi mai yawa a cikin wannan sarari. Ina so in yarda cewa na yarda da gaske cewa muna buƙatar kare mutanenmu masu rauni ta wannan annoba. Ban yarda sosai kan yadda hakan ke faruwa ba. Kuma ba na jin cewa shirin da shi da abokin aikinsa suka gabatar ya taba samun shaidar cewa ya yi tasiri.
Lokacin da na yi tunani game da al'ummomi masu rauni, ɗaya daga cikin abubuwan da nake tunani game da shi shine bayanan CDC wanda ke nuna cewa… Ko kuma lokacin da na yi tunani game da mutane masu rauni, ina tsammanin bayanan CDC sun nuna cewa kusan kashi 47% na yawan jama'ar Amurka suna da wani nau'in cutarwa wanda ke jefa su cikin haɗari mafi girma don sakamako mara kyau tare da COVID-19. Wadancan a fili su ne mutanen da za a kare su, amma ban san ainihin yadda aka ba da shirinsa ba.
WBUR: Don haka na bari muyi magana… Oh, yi hakuri, ci gaba.
Dokta Rochelle Walensky: Sannan sauran abin da nake so in faɗi game da al'ummomin da ba su da ƙarfi, kuma mutanen da ke rayuwa a cikin gidaje masu yawa waɗanda ƙila ba su da albarkatun da za su keɓe su yadda ya kamata. Haka kuma a cikin wannan sarari, ban san ainihin yadda za mu kare su ta wannan tsarin ba.
WBUR: Shin kun ga misalan irin wannan aikin kariya da aka mayar da hankali ko dai? Ka sani, wasu ƙasashe a nan Amurka a wasu lokuta, wannan wani abu ne da muka san zai iya aiki?
Dokta Rochelle Walensky: To, a gaskiya wannan shine babban kalubale na da shi. Ina ganin cewa wannan shi ne abin da Sweden kokarin yi. Wannan shi ne shirinsu. Abin da muka sani daga Sweden shine adadin mutuwar su, adadin su na kowane mutum miliyan 591 a kowace miliyan wanda ke hamayya da Amurka akan 593 a kowace miliyan, don ba ku fahimtar abin da kulle-kulle ya iya yi a wasu ƙasashe. Kuma ina nufin, da gaske tsauraran kulle-kulle. A kasar Sin, adadin wadanda suka mutu ya kai kusan miliyan uku. Don haka lokacin da kuka kalli abin da Sweden ke ƙoƙarin yi da abin da suke ƙoƙarin yin koyi a Sweden, bai yi aiki ba. Ba su iya kare su ba.
WBUR: Kalmar da yawancin fannonin ilimi ke amfani da ita ita ce lahani. Ina so in yi amfani da ɗan ƙaramin kalma daban, wanda ke nufin wani lahani, ina tsammanin shine kalmar da zan yi amfani da ita. Waɗannan kulle-kulle suna ɗauke da wasu lahani. Kun ji Martin Kulldorff yana magana game da wasu abubuwan da ke tattare da lafiyar kwakwalwa, tasirin tattalin arziki. CDC ta kiyasta cewa, yawan mace-mace shine kalmar da ake amfani da ita.
Dokta Rochelle Walensky: Yeah.
WBUR: Ya kasance kusan Amurkawa 100,000. To, menene game da wannan, shin akwai ciniki a kan cututtukan cututtukan da za a fara cewa maganin ya fi cutar zafi? Ba na son yin sauti a nan. Ina tambaya da gaske.
Dokta Rochelle Walensky: Dama. Don haka akwai wurare guda biyu da nake son yin magana a kansu dangane da hakan. Daya shine batun lafiyar kwakwalwa, ɗayan kuma shine batun nau'in sauran cututtuka da lalacewar haɗin gwiwa. Don haka Dokta Kolldorff yayi sharhi game da yawan mutuwar cututtukan zuciya da jijiyoyin jini, ƙananan ƙimar gwajin cutar kansa wanda ke bayyana a cikin ƙarin cututtuka.
Akwai wani yanki da ya fito a makon da ya gabata wanda ya nuna ainihin adadin mace-mace da kuke magana akai tsakanin Maris da Agusta kuma ƙasar ta kai kusan kwata miliyan, 225,000. Don haka ƙalubalen da ke akwai shine kashi biyu cikin uku na waɗanda ke da alaƙa da COVID. Sauran ukun na wadancan mutuwar da suka wuce gona da iri suna da alaƙa da ko dai rashin samun kulawa ko rashin samun kulawa. Mun yi a cikin tsarin asibitocinmu, mun ga ƙananan bugun zuciya, ƙananan adadin shanyewar jiki, dangane da ƙananan adadin shanyewar jiki, saboda mun san ba za su damu ba.
Don haka na yi imanin cewa gaskiyar cewa idan muka mamaye tsarin asibitocinmu kamar yadda zai iya faruwa sosai, idan muka bar kowa ya sami hanyoyin rigakafin garken garken da ake ba da shawara, za mu mamaye tsarin lafiyarmu. Kuma za mu ga ƙarin yawan waɗannan mutuwar da suka wuce saboda mutane ba za su halarta ba.
Sauran yanki a kan lafiyar kwakwalwa, ina tsammanin yana da mahimmanci. Kuma wannan shine, ba mu san dalilin da yasa mutane ke fama ba… Ina nufin, muna da dalilai da yawa da ya sa mutane ke fuskantar ƙalubalen lafiyar hankali. Abin ban mamaki ne abin da ke faruwa a yanzu, amma da yawa daga cikin waɗannan na iya alaƙa da gaskiyar cewa waɗanda suke ƙauna sun mutu, cewa waɗanda suke ƙauna ba su da lafiya, cewa sun yi ban kwana ta zuƙowa ko FaceTime. Kuma wannan lokaci ne na ban mamaki, ba su sami damar ziyartar 'yan uwansu a asibiti ba. Don haka duk da na yarda cewa babu shakka an samu raguwar tabin hankali ta hanyar rufe makarantarmu, ba lallai ba ne na yarda cewa amsar ita ce, ya kamata mu bi tsarin rigakafin garken garken garken shanu, kuma irin wannan yawan mace-macen da ake samu zai inganta yanayin lafiyar kwakwalwar al’ummarmu.
WBUR: Kun ji ni a lokacin da Farfesa Kulldorff ya tambayi Farfesa Kulldorff game da wannan tsarin da ke cikin mutanen da ke kulle-kulle tare da masu kare garken garken. Kuma ina so in yarda cewa, wannan shine binary wanda babu shi kuma yana iya zama matsala ta tsarawa. Ina kuma so in ce ba ma jin jihohi da yawa yayin da lambobi suka sake yin ta'azzara, ba ma jin jihohi da yawa suna magana game da shiga cikin nau'in kulle-kullen da muka yi a cikin bazara lokacin da muke ƙoƙarin karkatar da lanƙwasa. Shin za mu buƙaci… Idan babu sauran hanyoyin, shin za mu buƙaci komawa zuwa wancan matakin na kulle-kulle ko kuma yadda Massachusetts, alal misali, ke yin ta ta wannan nau'in tsari da niyya kuma ba tare da haɗin kai ba, shine abin da wataƙila za mu ci gaba da yi?
Dokta Rochelle Walensky: Na yi imani cewa kulle-kullen ya yi aiki cikin sharuddan, "lalata kwana." Muna bukatar yin hakan a cikin Maris. Ina nufin, kun ga yanayin abubuwan da ke faruwa a asibitocinmu, a asibitocin New York waɗanda ba su dawwama. Ina so in yi tunanin cewa za mu iya samun shugabancin kasa wanda zai amince da tsarin da mutane ke sanya abin rufe fuska, inda mutane ke nesa, inda za mu iya samun jagorancin da zai ba da damar duk waɗannan abubuwa su faru don haka za su iya kare kanmu. Na yi imani da gaske cewa ya kamata makarantu su kasance a bude fiye da wasu abubuwan da aka bude a yanzu. Kuma ina tsammanin za mu iya shiga cikin aminci cikin sarari don yin hakan ba tare da samun cikakken kullewa ba, saboda na fahimci yawan abin da ke faruwa.
WBUR: Don haka akwai masu rattaba hannu kan sanarwar Babban Barrington kuma an yi ta cece-kuce a can saboda wasu daga cikinsu ba a tantance su ba ko kuma sunaye na bogi. Na san John Snow Memorandum, wanda ta hanyar, ana kiransa da sunan masanin cututtukan cututtuka, ba halin Game of Thrones ba yana da mutane da yawa waɗanda aka tabbatar da su ta hanyar kimiyya, suma sun sanya hannu akansa. Shin wannan baya da baya, lafiya ga filin. Kuma shin zai sa mu sami kyakkyawan sakamako na lafiyar jama'a ko kuma hakan ta wata hanya ce, saboda siyasantar da wannan tattaunawa, musamman rashin lafiya a gare mu. Wanne ne mai yiwuwa ya zama?
Dokta Rochelle Walensky: Ba na jin wani daga cikinmu ya shiga cikin wannan yana son a yi tattaunawa ta masu sa hannu da kuma rubutattun bayanai. Ina tsammanin abin da ya faru shine, muna fara ƙungiyar mu ta duniya a cikin tasiri a daidai lokacin da John Snow Memorandum ya fito. Na kuma rubuta wani yanki a cikin Washington Post tare da abokan aiki, Yale, Gregg Gonsalves, Marc Lipsitch a Makarantar Kiwon Lafiyar Jama'a ta Harvard da Carlos del Rio a Emory, saboda mun fahimci cewa wannan yana zama wani ɓangare na tsarin da gwamnati ta amince da shi. Kuma mun damu matuka cewa idan har hakan ya fara kama, ba za a ji daya bangaren labarin ba. Kuma cewa lallai akwai da yawa daga cikinmu da ke aiki a fannin kiwon lafiyar jama'a da cututtuka masu yaduwa da cututtukan da suka yi imani da cewa hakan ba daidai ba ne. Kuma wannan shi ne ainihin manufarmu.
WBUR: To, da kyau, a zahiri za mu tsaya a nan. Dokta Rochelle Walensky farfesa ce a fannin likitanci a Makarantar Kiwon Lafiya ta Harvard, kuma tana aikin likitan cututtukan cututtuka a Babban Asibitin Massachusetts da Brigham da Mata da kuma shugaban Sashen Cututtuka masu Yaduwa a Mass General, kuma marubucin marubucin John Snow Memorandum. Dr. Walensky. Na gode da kasancewa a kan ku.
Dokta Rochelle Walensky: Na gode sosai don samun ni.
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Labarai daga Cibiyar Brownstone, ƙungiyar sa-kai da aka kafa a watan Mayu na 2021 don tallafawa al'umma da ke rage rawar tashin hankali a rayuwar jama'a.
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